Global Trade This Week – May 8th, 2023

What’s going on in Global Trade this Week? Today Doug & Keenan cover:

1:35 -China's Major Trade Expo Struggles to Draw Buyers
6:17 -Bed Bath & Beyond Suing Steamship Lines
12:48 -Halftime
20:39 -Flexport Acquiring Shopify's Logistics and Delivery Arm
25:11 -Global Supply Chain Shifting to Mexico, India, and Vietnam

Link to Wendover Video: How Mexico is Becoming the New China

• Full Show Transcript

  Keenan Brugh 0:00

  You're watching Global Trade This Week with Pete Mento and Doug Draper.

  Doug Draper 0:10

  Hello, and welcome to another edition of global trade this week. My name is Doug Draper. I'm one of your hosts. And we have a special guest host with us. This go around. Keenan, what is going on my friend? How are you doing?

  Keenan Brugh 0:26

  I'm doing well. It is good to be back here on this side of the camera in peace absence here today. Looking forward to our discussion today. And I hope I can live up to Pete's high expectations.

  Doug Draper 0:39

  Journal make some type of comment as usual. But for our listeners, Pete has a busy world trade week. I think if you remember from last week's episode, he spoke about some speaking engagements that he has. And the cool thing about this Keenan is it's called global trade this week. So we have to get this thing done every week. So our audience knows what we're thinking about, what what's going on out there in the world and global trade. So we had to keep it going. And I appreciate you filling in. It's awesome to see you.

  Keenan Brugh 1:14

  Absolutely. It's great to have these discussions. It's good to share information and hopefully provide some educational information to our audience. So I've really enjoyed the opportunity to learn and look up what's going on in the world. Additionally, above and beyond what we normally do on a day to day basis. It's a bit of a segue from what you were just saying Pete having a busy week in global trade. My first topic here today is a little bit of a slowdown in global trade from the perspective of China. So headline being China's major, major trade Expo struggles to draw buyers. So for the last couple of years during the pandemic, with all the COVID rules, China's largest fair didn't happen in person. Now this year, about a couple of weeks ago, I think April 15, was when it started. It's a big, you know, suppliers and buyers all meet together. And it's still massive. I mean, they did $25 billion worth of transactions. But that's significantly lower than what it was 10 plus years ago at 38 billion. So they brought it back after a couple year hiatus. Some is now online, but online and in in person at the fair was much lower than where they left off in 2019. And so this kind of ties to some discussions that I've heard you and Pete cover a while back. And it'll also a little bit tied to my second topic in the second half. But it's a kind of big news that, you know, there's lots of suppliers there, but not as many buyers seems like the buyers from the US and the European Union are lower than before. Not to say there's none, there's obviously lots of businesses still sourcing and buying and attending US trade shows 25 billion, there's a lot. But when you see it dropped down from 38 billion, you see a pretty clear trend. And perhaps that trend had already been in place as wages have been increasing quality of life has been increasing in China. And that's eroding what historically had been their competitive edge of low cost manufacturing. You know, they're trying to transition more to a consumer economy to intellectual property development. And so as interesting trends, but as this trade shows, just wrapping up, the news I want to bring here to the show is that it's struggling to find a buyers. So interesting developments there with China and exports.

  Doug Draper 3:34

  Yeah, no, it's a great topic. I'm glad, I'm glad that you you brought it up. And when I was when you shared the topic, a couple things came to mind with the global trend of trade shows, right specifically here in Colorado, the Outdoor Retailer show is something I think you and I both relate to but you know, COVID as an accelerator that we spoke about during COVID and all the different trends supply chain related and and otherwise, is that I think people just in general engage with trade shows differently now I think they realize that business can compress on without having to invest human resources and dollars to go so I think it's a natural progression, you know, as as things have moved, we always talk about the you know, the the economy is goods and services goods were very heavy during COVID People wanted their stuff, right? They wanted to have some comfort with things they could touch and feel. I think garden gnomes was actually a reference in that article. Yeah, kind of a random, you know, a bunch of stuff that we really don't need out there and then things swift switch to the services but you know, the amount of goods that are still in the supply chain, right that are still impacted and lots of warehousing space that being in that end History of warehousing specifically, there's a lot of buildings and a lot of warehouses that are full of stuff. And they're trying to push that through. So I think that has something to do with it. And with the slowing economy, if you're sourcing garden gnomes, and I'm the factory that's producing it for you, Keenan, and I realize there's a downturn, I may be reaching out to you proactively, and saying, hey, you know, what your garden gnomes situation and 2023. So I think warehouse for full Yeah, exactly. Exactly. We need better gnomes out there. Everything else. So I think just the way people engage with trade shows differently. I think there's still a lot of goods in the supply chain. And I'll be it maybe not as strong as the other topics. But I still think that there's some travel concerns to China. Yeah, a lot of that's been lifted. But I think there's just like some uncertainty with businesses like What's this trade war? Is it safe to travel? So I think that has something to do with it. But that's a great topic and a solid observation, for sure.

  Keenan Brugh 6:04

  Well, thanks. And there's a couple of additional things, we could keep talking on it, but it kind of expands into our next topic. So we'll kind of keep this conversation going in the second half. What do you have for us today?

  Doug Draper 6:17

  All right, this one was interesting. And it's related to Bed Bath and Beyond, and the situation with them filing bankruptcy. And I kind of refer to this, as you know, are they going out swinging? Are they leaving the ring swinging, and throwing haymakers out there, and I'm specifically referring to the fact that they're suing a couple of steamship lines and saying that their lack of performance for you know, some of the delays in the supply chain is a direct relationship with the problems that they had, and is one of the reasons why they had to file a bankruptcy. So I don't know the exact amounts and you may have in there. I think one of the lawsuits is maybe seven or 8,000,001 of them is closer to 30 million, with YangMing steamship lines. But the two things that came into play with that one is number one, is that kind of a bush league move on the way out? Or is it brilliant positioning, from a business perspective? So I'll take both those topics? And then I'll get your opinion on it. All right. So now the first one, me personally, bush league move, right? They're kind of playing the victim card, for lack of lack of vision within the organization, maybe some poor decision making with not pivoting to the way that consumers are buying it. So and, you know, I don't want to go down a rabbit hole on this one. But it just seems, this is my personal opinion. The societal trend is to blame others for failure, it's not my fault. If this would have happened, I would have been able to succeed. So it's interesting. So part of me is like, you know what, guys, come on, you made some bad decisions, things didn't work out your way. And let's, you know, go off quietly into the night. But then from a business perspective, Kenan could be a brilliant move, hey, businesses business, and they owe a lot of debtors a lot of money. And if they can, you know, get some of the money that's owed from some deep pockets that has made a lot of headlines in the in the recent years with the steamship lines, just raking it in as far as record profits. Hey, you know, what, kind of a brilliant move, let's see what throw it on the wall and see what sticks. So, I don't know, I got both sides of that. My personal opinion is, is a bush league approach to it. But the business perspective, which is what Bed Bath and Beyond is is a business, maybe it's a brilliant move to try to, you know, look at every angle where they could possibly generate some revenue to better their position with the with the debtor. So I don't know what your take on it.

  Keenan Brugh 8:58

  Yeah, trying to put on both of those perspectives, I think aside more so with your your first but giving the steel man argument to the good roles in it, you know, the company is going under. So I think it's more about the individual managers or sea level execs trying to avoid blame and responsibility in order to maintain their exit package. While there is probably the interest of shareholders and people holding the debt that want to be paid. I don't know that their interests are being primarily served from the whole bankruptcy and the business not performing well to begin with. So I wonder if it's more of golden parachute hopes. If the business was still going, you would hope that leaders would be more taking responsibility in the terms of Jocko Willink doing the more extreme ownership. You know, this is our fault. We didn't anticipate this sure, but we could have done this we should do this better. But when the company's going bankrupt, do you know Are they filing more just bankruptcy for debt relief and reorganize? reorganizing? Are they planning on still being a brand and a company? Or are they just going under? I haven't haven't read that far. Yeah,

  Doug Draper 10:11

  it's chapter 11. From my understanding, but they're closing all their stores. So

  Keenan Brugh 10:14

  all their stores, so maybe the brand will come back, but it won't be the same business. Yeah, I mean, this kind of reminds me of the first topic where there were, undoubtedly unprecedented changes with the pandemic, and Pandemic response policies and trade war situations, though, a lot of the effects from those unprecedented surprises have been to accelerate pre existing trends, kind of like trade shows, I think trade shows were already kind of going down. There's some exceptions, you know, big consumer electronics shows or things that get a ton of attention. But for the average trade show, I think people have been realizing they could do zoom calls, or teleconferencing or other ways of even going person to person and, you know, face to face type meetings, without the expense and the overhead of those older models. The internet can connect buyers and suppliers in new ways that wasn't possible 50 years ago, and trade shows were also still a thing. So some of those changes are likely to be seen. Bed Bath and Beyond. I mean, I haven't been into one of those in a long time. I don't buy a lot of that type of stuff. But if I were I probably buy it online, and I probably wouldn't buy it from Bed Bath and Beyond. So they can try to blame the weather and pandemics and trade war policies or shipping lines. They're going after 7 million that looked like from YangMing and 31, almost 32 from OOCL. I mean, they're significant numbers. But would if they got those would that totally have changed their business trajectory? I don't know that that would have been the difference of that being a successful business or not.

  Doug Draper 11:55

  Yeah, yeah, it's, I would agree. And your comments about where you're going to buy your, your kitchen and bathroom supplies is is just a microcosm of their problem. They didn't they didn't pivot fast enough. And you know, I can get my George Foreman grill online and not have to worry about the headache of jumping in the car. So you've mentioned other

  Keenan Brugh 12:16

  interesting models of groups like Kohl's I think that we're teaming up with Amazon for reserved returns. And that kind of like, I forgot the acronyms you've used, but you like bring your online goods back for returns in the location. I think I actually walked around and looked at some other stuff from Kohl's like it's one of those models where it actually got me in a store to make a return. And then, you know, I don't know that bed bath tried anything like that. But I know I haven't been in one for at least a decade.

  Doug Draper 12:45

  Yeah. That's it. Well, I'll, we'll switch the halftime here. And since you work for the organization that helps put this on, I will do the hype, which is, you know, Cap logistics, putting all this together for us. And what you personally do Kenan is, is yeoman's work with putting up with Pete myself and getting this thing out there. So we appreciate cap, we appreciate you. And I just cap logistics.com for some of your supply chain and transportation needs. So I'll jump in on this one. And then we'll we'll go back and forth on the halftime and I could have sworn Kenan it feels like six months ago, we were talking about the Oracle from Omaha and Berkshire Hathaway annual shareholder meeting, but that did happen this weekend. And I figured I'd just bring up some fun facts. I got a buddy in college that is a freelance photographer. He lives in Lincoln, Nebraska. And he's done a lot of work with the University of Nebraska and the big 12 conference. And he was able to do a deal at the event this weekend. And he said they had a gecko in a suit since one of the investments for Berkshire is GEICO Insurance. And he was there for three days. He took 1587 pictures of people walking up and putting their arm around the gecko and taking a picture. So based on the time that he was on the ground snap and he said it was one picture every 32 seconds. Wow. Which is absolutely just just just crazy that people would want to do that gimmick. But that got me thinking Kenan, so here's a couple other other statistics based on Buffett's comments. And I'm just picturing like this old grandfather on you know, a just big rocking chair on the porch, eating ice cream or sipping coffee or something, you know, providing some

  Unknown Speaker 14:51

  that's what he said.

  Doug Draper 14:54

  Yeah, to his grandkids. So, here's, here's some of the advice that I heard that he had said is that, you know, banks, lots of tomfoolery going on out there. And you know, the regulations need to be buttoned up and kind of a slap on the wrist. It's kind of like back in my day, you can picture them on the porch back in my day, you could trust your bank and blah, blah, blah. So he's challenging can banks moving forward be trusted in their current environment with kind of loose regulations and risky positionings. He also made a comment that said the US dollar is indeed the champion for reserve currencies. Again, your grandfather on the porch talking about back in my day, blah, blah, blah. You know, America. So just continually, maybe that's a side hit on his whole cryptocurrency thing from last year. But you know, the dollar is strong. And then the one thing that really struck me on this one is that they said that Berkshire Hathaway's portfolio has $151 billion invested into Apple, which is what I had read is about just shy of 50%, of Berkshire Hathaway's total total hold holdings, which strikes me as odd because if you look at the history of Berkshire Hathaway, and the comments is that diversification is a safe play. And doesn't look like Berkshire is very diversified right now. But the Oracle is the Oracle and, and, you know, they got a hell of a lot of money invested in apple. So anyway, those were kind of the takeaways I got from this past weekend.

  Keenan Brugh 16:40

  Interesting. I didn't realize they were so heavy into Apple, what first came to mind when you mentioned that is another of his adages, talking about invest in what you know, in And historically, that's meant not a lot of tech companies. But I guess Apple's kind of transitioned over into the this is no longer speculative tech, bro VC funded. This is an institution more of a blue chip, deep economy, big, you know, he likes investing in his Coca Cola is is railroads, you know, and maybe apples, the equivalent of that, when I was also reading about it seems to be they've been doing more stock buybacks. And they've been having a little bit of trouble finding good opportunities to invest it, they have a lot of cash. And they're not seeing a lot of good investments may be a mix of the company's a mix of the macro economic situation. So they've been buying their shares. And maybe Apple is one of those, okay, it's tech, but it's old school tech, it's going to be around it's big. And that's where they're piling in some of their cash besides buying their own stock back. Yeah, just interesting overall takeaways, I thought it was pretty key that he was saying, quote, the majority of our businesses will report lower earnings this year than last year, and quote, so it's one of those where, you know, maybe tech and some things get hit first. But now, while we're not technically in a recession, yet, we're still seeing economic growth, the rate of growth is slowing. And there's lots of warning bells that you and Pete have been discussing and seeing. And it seems like that's starting to hit the Berkshire Hathaway type businesses, which, you know, in his philosophy, the Value Based Investing something to that effect, where it's more about, like, you know, core economic drivers, and people often report on Berkshire, Berkshire because of its correlation to the underlying US economy. So interesting perspective on that sort of stuff. One other tangent that I wanted to bring up Berkshire Hathaway wholly owns BNSF as the railroad. And so it seems like they have had critiques of the Canadian Pacific Kansas City Southern merger in, you know, the fall they and Union Pacific were talking about, like they better take some precautions. There's maybe some issues that are come up in Texas about volume and different things like that. Now, not Berkshire Hathaway's railroad, but it looks like maybe just this weekend or last week, Union Pacific reached out and they are trying to appeal that decision by the Surface Transportation Board approving that massive merger. So man, it seemed and news has been reporting and press releases are moving ahead. Like they're co branding, and they're becoming a company. So maybe it's already approved and inevitable at this point. But Union Pacific is a big player in that space. And historically, over 10 years ago, Berkshire had had significant stakes in union. Apparently, they sold out in 2008 2009, something like that, but they're still in the railroad game. And so it's interesting, there's maybe a little bit of pushback on that merger. It's the first time hearing of it, though, it wouldn't surprise me that competitors would try to Stop a larger, more efficient competitor from cutting in on what was their business?

  Doug Draper 20:05

  Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Take on that one for sure. Because you're right. BNSF wholly owned by Burke. But yeah, we'll see. I mean, the whole railroad thing. I think the pipeline from from Mexico through the US up to Canada is a big deal. So it wouldn't surprise me if all the class one railroads get in there and throw their punches around. So that's still still interesting to see what happens. So cool. All right. So I'm gonna jump in. Yeah, I'm gonna jump in my, my next topic is, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's related. It's got a lot of hype in the last week is Flexport. Acquisition to Shopify and their logistics arm including deliver, which is their final mile solution. And the new term, Kenan that I've heard out there is a port to porch. Port like ocean port to porch.

  Unknown Speaker 21:00

  I haven't heard that one yet.

  Doug Draper 21:02

  Yeah, port to port, you know, Endless Aisle was kind of the Amazon thing where you could shop on anything, you'd want it online. So port to porch. So a couple of key thoughts on that one. Number one, I think Shopify is very smart to get rid of those things. Obviously, you know, they started as a tech, you know, a digitally native, if you will, company that started with tech and then started expanding, I think they realize that may not be the right play. And it's another kind of staying in their lane, focusing on the tech side, and they're realizing that it's not going to work, which I get, I think that's smart. That's how businesses pivot, which is what Bed Bath and Beyond did not do, which was our first topic. The one piece that I think people may not have seen, and I wanted to call out is that Shopify still gets 13% equity stake in the new the new relationship. And what I'm going to do, and I'm going to coin this phrase, and I know Pete loves it when I do these things is that they're going to pull a Hamilton. And what I mean by that is Hamilton, the musical, where are they says they want to have a seat in the room where it happens, right? So they're gonna have a board seat. So there's some ownership there, they're gonna have the ability to be in the room where it happens and help navigate this, which I think is, again, my opinion, very smart. Another thing I just realized when I was doing a little research on this is that the current CEO of Flexport, is a guy named David Clark. And he's from Amazon. And he was one of the Guru's that kind of really expanded that delivery arm of Amazon. And I think he's, I don't think I know, he's got a decree to say, Let's redo it again. So they got the freight forwarding side, which is the proverbial port. And now they're acquiring the delivery arm, which is the proverbial porch, which is kind of the first major player to take a step. You know, Amazon has kind of always had the opportunity to acquire, really develop or do something on the freight forwarding and the transportation side on the front end of the supply chain. And that's never really, really transpired. So maybe this is the first entree into a true port to port logistics. And David Clark seems to have his act together. He's certainly proven that with his relationship, and what he'd been doing over at Amazon, so it could be interesting to see, but Horta porch, and I'll give Shopify, some credit for knowing when to call it, when to throw in the towel, and still be in a position with the with a 13% equity and having a board seat. I think that's a smart move. And I like it.

  Keenan Brugh 23:49

  Yeah, it makes sense. You know, them doing their logistics right away kind of reminds me of Amazon, where they're trying to do some integration beyond their core business, though, from my understanding Shopify is huge, but they're not Amazon huge. And so maybe it does make more sense to let some transportation and logistics experts be more of the management while they hold on to some of the strategic equity since they are driving a lot of sales. And maybe that could be a strategic advantage that they get special rates or different things potentially. But they don't have to manage it and have kind of a loss or distraction from their core business function there. So yeah, very interesting move. Yeah, it looks like just for reference on size, it looks like Shopify announced 197 billion for 2022, which is a lot. It's a lot. I doubt it's as large as Amazon. And so yeah, Amazon revenue was more 514 billion. So yeah, over double, I mean, Shopify is catching up. I guess a lot of people are using that.

  Doug Draper 24:59

  Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, that's interesting play we'll see for both parties, meaning Flexport. We'll see. We'll see how that rolls. So all right, well bring us home keen and tell us what you got for your second topics.

  Keenan Brugh 25:11

  Yeah. So kind of tying into our halftime and my first topic. We're seeing more global supply chains shifting to Mexico, India and Vietnam. Again, some of these trends had already been in place before the pandemic, but pandemic and trade war only kind of escalated that existing trend, were now companies having experienced shortages, you just can't get something at any price or containers coming from China costing upwards, over 30 grand per for 40 foot container, which is pretty wild. People have been looking into diversifying their supply chain and they're now moving towards countries like India and Vietnam for some high tech or really low cost, manufacturing kind of the replacements of China, also a shift towards Mexico, where it's globalization, but it's more regional globalization where people decision makers are thinking, okay, maybe manufacturing slightly more in Mexico, we have to set some stuff up, but there won't be risk of exposure to ocean freight changes, if that ever binds up again, with pandemic or all out war trade wars. And so, you know, now we're having more railroads connecting Canada, US, Mexico, we have the new NAFTA. What is it the US, Mexico, US MCA US Mexico Canada agreement, I think they changed the orders in the respective countries, people are moving, people are moving those. And to the point of something that a you and Pete have discussed before. Sometimes companies will move to Mexico or Vietnam, but ultimately, they're still working with a Chinese company. China is aware of this trend and has been investing in manufacturing facilities, locations within Vietnam, within Mexico. I'm not sure what the relations are with India, if they're allowed or not allowed too much in there. But if they can, I'm sure they would be. So that's something to keep in mind. Maybe you're okay with your supply chain coming from a Chinese company. But if it comes from Mexico, that reduces your risk. But if you're worried about political, geopolitical risk, you know, with everything going on in Taiwan, increasing flights and kind of tensions around there. You know, I'm still of the opinion, I wouldn't imagine it's in the best interest of either China or us to try to escalate into an actual war. But there are definitely the lingering effects of the trade war, even as some of the things are, aren't as tight as they used to be trades, not where it was before that. And there are future concerns, Chip back type things and all this different stuff that could play into it. So yeah, we're seeing moves towards Mexico and India and Vietnam. There is also a great Wendover video, I will link in the show notes and description about how Mexico is becoming the new China. And so part of it is becoming China with a large investments into industrial parks and different things. Kind of like what South Korea has done and Japan has done before them making, you know, my Japanese truck to coma. Toyota was produced in Mexico, you know, like they've kind of pioneered that model as well. But it's interesting, we're seeing more and more nearshoring or French shoring. So there's the location aspect of buffering against logistic shocks. And then there's also the French shoring where it's more of the what politically is going to be okay, are we going to end up in a fight with China? You know, I don't feel like a lot of people want that. But some people are trying to diversify their supply chain away from that. So if you are going to Mexico, you know, maybe it's okay to have a Chinese manufacturer, maybe you want to get away from it. So interesting trend to keep an eye on. It's been a slow moving thing, but it's speeding up here now with pandemic and logistic shockwaves and potential geopolitical risk. I don't know what are your initial thoughts on some of that stuff,

  Doug Draper 29:19

  too? Well, a couple of things. Right. We spoke about this before and I've used this term that you know, all these companies are not going to fall for the banana in the tailpipe again, that's a Beverly Hills Cop reference for all of those that are north of 40 that may realize that but anyway, once bitten, twice shy maybe is a better a better adage to throw out there but you know, no way can my company be in a situation like it was in 2021. If I want to keep in business and I want to stay at my suite C suite in the general I don't really care where my airfryer comes from, and if I can go buy it online and not have it delayed. What comes from Mexico owned by a Chinese factory, the general consumer in my pay Union could care less. And I think the investment with Chinese money investing into Mexico will continue to accelerate. So that's my take on that. And the second piece is, I don't think, Well, personally, I don't think it was coincidental because railroads move very slow, figuratively and literally. But the simple fact of the reshoring nearshoring, French shoring and having all of that into Mexico, all of a sudden, here's this railroad, this development is pipeline through the spine, of all three countries. I think a little bit of it was a little bit of luck, with with timing, but they are going to be positioned. And if Berkshire Hathaway wants to look at some other investments, that railroad connection is, you know, is going to blow up, in my opinion. And we've talked about that in the past that it's, you know, it is a smart play. And I think they are going to be the beneficiaries today, meaning the railroad in that in that acquisition moving forward. But I don't think it's gonna go back. You saw it and your first topic related to the trade show in China. We've seen it with protecting ourselves on the supply chain and larger companies in the demand, or the consumer is not interested in waiting in companies can't afford to have warehouses full of deep fryers, and George Foreman grills. So it's an accelerator. That is a reaction to what happened to COVID. So it's, it's not going away. It's pretty Oh, and the last thing, Keenan and I'll let you kind of take us out is, geez, I just spaced on it. I had a good topic there. And I completely forgot about it. So anyway.

  Keenan Brugh 31:43

  Maybe this could jog your memory or something else? Oh, go ahead.

  Doug Draper 31:46

  Yeah, it was your it was your Tacoma thing. Right. So if there was a supply chain that's embracing Mexico and understanding the nuances of manufacturing and some assembly, it's the auto industry. So I think there's gonna be a lot of companies that take that model, try to apply it to their product. And see, because that has been going on for a while. And there's a lot of lessons to be learned there.

  Keenan Brugh 32:08

  Absolutely auto heavy manufacturing for heavy equipment. Increasingly more aerospace and more tech, you know, maybe we'll see some Taiwanese type companies do the same sort of thing taking their companies and their know how of the building of what is often designed in the US for chips. I think we might see more and more of those built nearby in Mexico. With everything going around the uncertainty with China, Taiwan, One Country Two System Type policies and what that's all going to mean in the near future long term future 510 50 years.

  Doug Draper 32:45

  Yeah, yeah. Good. Good. All right, Ken. Well, you work for the company that puts us on so I won't put you on the spot. And have you closed this out? Right. I won't let you

  Unknown Speaker 32:56

  get better from you anyway. Thank you.

  Doug Draper 32:59

  That's right. Well, anyway, I'll say as I did before, Cap logistics.com Great resource and can't thank you organizations enough for letting the show happen every single week. So and obviously, we wouldn't be here if people weren't listening to it, commenting on it. So please do so when we post on all of the platforms out there. And we look forward to seeing you guys again next week. I think Pete will be back but if not, Pete or Keenan, you and I will rock the boat again.

  Keenan Brugh 33:29

  Absolutely. Thanks again, for having me on today. Everyone listening don't forget to like, subscribe and hit that notification bell. I

  Doug Draper 33:39

  think that's it. That's gonna wrap it up. Thanks, everybody. Appreciate you joining us today. Have a great week. Thanks.